Why Can’t We Remember God’s Power?

I was just reading the story of Nebuchadnezzar’s state of humility in the book of Daniel and wanted to write some brief thoughts about his remarkable arch of pride, humility, and restored exaltation.

To recap the story of Daniel prior to my thoughts; when Babylon besieged Jerusalem in 605 B.C. and exiled the Jews to Babylon he took several young men of good learning to be trained in Babylonian culture. Daniel was one of these chosen few. God gave Daniel favor in the sight of the Babylonians and he was able to interpret the dreams of Nebuchadnezzar when none of the king’s magicians and enchanters was able to. Nebuchadnezzar promoted Daniel to ruler over the whole province of Babylon and he was made chief prefect over all the wise men (D. 2:48). Daniel then requested that Nebuchadnezzar promote his three friends Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego over the affairs of the province of Babylon as well.

Here’s where Nebuchadnezzar’s life-arch starts to get crazy. After he’s promoted Daniel & Co. he decides that he’s going to create an image of gold (or a colossal chocolate bunny for us VeggieTales fans) that everybody must bow down and worship. As many of you are familiar with, the fab three Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego refuse to do this and Nebuchadnezzar throws them into the fiery furnace that he’s turned up extra high for them (so high it killed the people he sent to toss them in!). After standing strong against idol worship their lives are spared and they are seen alive in the furnace with a fourth figure (thought to be either an appearance of Christ pre-incarnation or an angel), and so they walk out completely unscathed. What does Nebuchadnezzar say about this?
He says:

Praise be to the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, who has sent his angel and rescued his servants! They trusted in him and defied the king’s command and were willing to give up their lives rather than serve or worship any god except their own God.
 Therefore I decree that the people of any nation or language who say anything against the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego be cut into pieces and their houses be turned into piles of rubble, for no other god can save in this way.” – Daniel 3:28-29

After this he promoted the trio again in the province of Babylon.

So it sure seems like at this point that Nebuchadnezzar should know how awesomely powerful and in control of all things God is. After all, at this point in his life he has seen many miraculous things that he credited correctly to the God of the Hebrews and acknowledged His majesty verbally. Sounds good right? He even proclaims the “signs and wonders” God has performed for him by saying: “How great are his signs, how mighty his wonders! His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion endures from generation to generation.” – D. 4:3

After this, Nebuchadnezzar had a second dream which struck fear in his heart. Instead of going to Daniel first (I imagine Daniel stroking his cat and saying “Why didn’t you come to me first? I can’t remember the last time that you invited me to your house for a cup of coffee..”), he went back to his gaggle of charlatans and didn’t get an answer. He finally went back to Daniel and Daniel was not happy to tell him the interpretation. The dream basically says that Nebuchadnezzar will be cut down and lose his kingdom and his sanity if he continues to sin and oppress people. The dream is a big “if,” in which if Nebuchadnezzar refuses to rule in the way that God is instructing him to that his kingdom will be taken away and if not then God will not have to teach him humility in that way.

Unfortunately, Nebuchadnezzar did not listen and a year later goes out one night on his roof and was feeling prideful of all his accomplishments. He said “Is this not great Babylon, which I have built by my mighty power as a royal residence and for the glory of my majesty?” Way to word your sentence to be extra-prideful and dishonoring to God! Daniel says that while the words were still in Nebuchadnezzar’s mouth the kingdom had been taken away from him and he had been driven insane. He was driven away from civilization and ate grass, and let his hair and nails grow crazy long. That must have been quite the sight for all the mocking school kids!

After God’s appointed time had ended Nebuchadnezzar looked up to the sky and his reason was restored, and along with it his kingdom. He praised God whose “dominion is an everlasting dominion” and says that “now I praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, for all his works are right and his ways are just; and those who walk in pride he is able to humble.” (D – 4:37)

Now to the question of the title: why can’t we remember God’s power? Why is this so difficult for us to keep in mind? Nebuchadnezzar clearly struggled to keep God at the center of his life and work and God tore down everything he had to make him realize who was really in control.

Many of us are like Nebuchadnezzar even though we don’t rule the predominant kingdom in the whole world. “We have seen his glory” as John 1:14 says, and we do know Him and are without excuse (Romans 1:20). Nebuchadnezzar was certainly without excuse as he saw sign and wonders beyond what many of us have ever seen. He surrounded himself with believers who knew the truth in top positions, but that didn’t make his own ways righteous. God called him out specifically for sinning and not showing mercy to the oppressed. God gave him a warning and a chance to turn his life around, but he refused and instead touted himself as responsible for all his accomplishments.

When we do not acknowledge God as the author of all good and the sole author of the story of our lives and humanity and give ourselves credit, we are forgetting who’s really in charge; who is really king over the everlasting kingdom. We want to be the accomplished king of our lives, but if we do not practice righteousness and humility in keeping what God has allowed us to steward, then He will have to humble us and return us to Him as He did with the most important ruler of that time.

Let us not be like Nebuchadnezzar and clearly perceive the glory and power that God has, the control that He has over the world, and give ourselves more credit than Him. Remember these words of Nebuchadnezzar’s, lest God need to bring you down to humility as well:

For His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
and His kingdom is from generation to generation.
All the inhabitants of the earth are counted as nothing,
and He does what He wants with the army of heaven
and the inhabitants of the earth.
There is no one who can hold back His hand
or say to Him, “What have You done?” – Daniel 4:35

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God’s Love is NOT Reckless

My wife wrote this post on Facebook and I wanted to share it with everyone following my blog because I think this is an exceedingly important issue. Here’s what she had to say:

“God’s love is NOT reckless. Let me explain why.

First, I want to preface this by saying that I do not normally attack worship songs and I tend to give a lot of popular songs poetic license because I like the way they sound and they have meaning for me. The song “reckless love” IS a really good song and I like it…except for the title and intended takeaway message of it. Poetic license is one thing, lying about the character of God is another.

Cory Asbury, the writer of the song “Reckless Love” states that God’s love is reckless because “He simply gives Himself away on the off-chance that one of us might look back at Him and offer ourselves in return.”

The definition of reckless that most people use to argue for this song is from the Oxford dictionary which defines reckless as “(of a person or their actions) without thinking or caring about the consequences of an action.”

First of all, God does not have “off chance” in His vocabulary. Before we take a step, God knows it. Psalm 139:4 states, “even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.” Even the hairs on our head are numbered (Luke 12:7). God knows everything we have done and will ever do and He has ALWAYS known it. God doesn’t give Himself away hoping to change our minds or our path in life; God already knows our path. Claiming that God does anything on a whim, not knowing the actions or hoping for a different result is like a writer writing a book and not knowing what he’s written down. It’s impossible. But that’s the BEAUTY of our relationship with God. He knows every single sin we have committed and will commit. He knows our hearts, He knows how broken we are. Before we were even in the womb, God knew us (Jeremiah 1:5). But He still made us. He still chose us. He still wants us. He still loves us. When you act or claim that you can surprise God by your actions, you’re promoting your status as a human and demoting His status as God and therefore undermining what Jesus did on the cross. Which is my second point.

God thinks and cares about the consequences of all His actions. Do you think God didn’t care about the consequence of sending His one and only Son to die on the cross? Do you think Jesus didn’t care about the consequence of being crucified? Jesus understood and cared about the consequences very well. He cared so much that right before they came for Him, He prayed for God to take it from Him if possible, but Thy will be done (Matthew 26:39). Jesus KNEW what it would cost for Him to save us. Jesus cared and frankly, He didn’t want to do it if He didn’t have to. But Jesus also knew the consequence of NOT going to the cross. He knew the consequences of all of our sins. He knew that without His death, we would never find life. And so knowing ALL the options and ALL the consequences, Jesus CHOSE to die for us. It wasn’t on the off chance that it would save us. It wasn’t on the off chance that people would come to Him. He knew. When you use this definition and claim that Jesus didn’t care about going to the cross you’re truly missing out on the pain and torture of being crucified and missing out on the gravity and the heaviness of what He did for you.

Furthermore, God is a perfect God. He is Prince of Peace. He is Sovereign. When I think of reckless love, I honestly picture Liam Neeson in “Taken”. Liam Neeson’s character is a trained killer, a trained security guard, a trained protector. When his daughter gets taken, he basically flips over all of Paris to find her. He doesn’t care who he has to kill in the process or who he has to beat up or the bridges he has to jump off of or how much money it costs. He just DOES it. Now some of you might be thinking, well yes Aly, this is a beautiful picture of the love of God. But it’s not. God does not kill other people to get to you. God does not mistreat nature, people, or any of His creation just to get to you. Why? Because we are ALL equal in God’s eyes. God is so careful with all of our hearts and He would never kill or mistreat another person just to get to you because He wants you, He wants the people “standing in His way”, He wants the people watching, He wants it ALL. There is no collateral damage when it comes to the love of God because the love of God is PERFECT. Sure, God can use the death of someone or the pain of someone to get to you. God will USE the trouble in your life to get your attention but He would never hurt or punish someone else just to teach you a lesson. The enemy, however, is like Liam Neeson. The enemy has come to steal, kill, and destroy (John 10:10). The more people he can take down in the process, the better. The enemy wants to kill other people and hurt other people in order to kill and hurt you. The enemy is reckless. The enemy is chaos. God is perfect. God is peace.

I considered not writing this because of the command in 2 Timothy 2:16 “avoid irreverent babble for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness”. But the reason I still chose to post this is because our talk and our vocabulary as Christians effects nonbelievers. In my life, I have had trouble. I have given my heart and my time and my body to people who have been reckless to me. What did I receive in return? Pain, heartbreak, and betrayal. There’s nothing positive about being reckless. I am very careful about who I trust my heart with because most people will be reckless with it and not take proper care of it. Now if I were a nonbeliever and I heard that Christians were calling God’s love reckless, and then telling me to give my LIFE, my EVERYTHING, to Him, I would not do it. I would not want to entrust everything I am to another “person” who is reckless and careless with it. I would run the other way. I don’t need someone else to hurt me, I don’t need to give someone else that kind of control if they’re not going to take care of it. I’ll live life on my own, thanks. But that’s not God. Jesus says, those who die for me will find life. God is a “Good Good Father.” He will not let me down. He will not hurt me. He will heal me. The use of the phrase “Reckless Love” I fear is confusing and deterring nonbelievers.

That being said, I like the rest of the song. I like acknowledging that God is so good and so kind to me. I know I could never deserve or earn His love. And I know He will not stop pursuing me. But you wanna know what that is? It’s RELENTLESS. Perfectly planned, perfectly unstoppable. So if you’re sitting here thinking, well gee thanks Aly, NOW what am I going to listen to? Check out this song.”

What we sing in worship to God is going to have an affect on on how we view God Himself. This song could have the potential to infect believer’s understanding of who God is for several generations if it keeps getting passed down, as many worship standards do. Distortions of God’s character and gospel are evil and those who who preach a different gospel are “accursed” (Galatians 1:8-9).

This is serious, deadly business. 

bethel-music-worshipThe song “Reckless Love” comes from Bethel, which is a heretical church that teaches the gospel as being empowerment to perform miracles, and that Jesus was not God in His time on earth but God becoming fully and only human to model a Christian life of miracle performing for us. This is false teaching and not in accord with a Scriptural understanding of the gospel or who Christ is.

Bill Johnson, Bethel’s lead pastor, is not preaching the gospel or even Christ as God in the flesh. In fact, he has said that if Christ had been God in the flesh that he would not be compelled to follow Him. Are you kidding me? As I said, this is serious business and it’s not just the unbiblical things they do, like grave sucking, fake “glory clouds,” and numerous false prophecies. This is attacking the very nature of Christ and the gospel itself. Johnson is telling his followers they are now perfectly holy and there is no need for sanctification, but the Bible says that if you tell yourself you are without sin that you are deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8). He is teaching that Jesus was not completely good since He was not God (Jesus says there is no one good but God alone – Mark 10:18). Which means that Jesus’s death wouldn’t have been the spotless sacrificial death of the Lamb needed to atone for sins, so under Bethel theology Christ’s death doesn’t really atone for anything.

Pastor Gabriel Hughes says this (emphasis by me):

When you hear the word “gospel” mentioned at Bethel Church, know that it is a different gospel they’re talking about. This filters into all of their ministries. The “Jesus” in the name “Jesus Culture” is not the Jesus of the Bible. When you listen to their worship songs, you might hear all the right Christian words, but you are not praising God with them because they are writing and singing about a different Jesus.”

Using terms that are without Scriptural basis to describe God’s love like “reckless” are par for the course for the accursed church of Bethel. This should have been a warning to those in the church who understand God’s character and love that something was amiss. Instead we sing the new song with zeal and even begin describing God’s love in normal conversation as “reckless.” What Bethel is singing about is not God and is not Christianity, even though it sounds nice.

I encourage everyone reading this to talk to your pastors and express your concern about letting the heretical Bethel continue to poison the understanding people have of God and the gospel and to speak out against this false teaching. The Bereans checked what Paul told them against Scripture and are called noble for doing so, and many of them came to Christ (Acts 17:11-12 NIV). We need to be careful to check that what we are singing or teaching does not twist or distort God because this is a thing of the enemy.

“But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” – Matthew 24:43-44

You can read more about Bethel’s heretical teachings here.

 

C.S. Lewis on the Right Way to Read Classics

You probably know C.S. Lewis for his imaginative Narnia fiction or perhaps for his non-fiction works on Christianity, but many are unaware of the groundbreaking and brilliant work he did within his scholarly field. Lewis was a Fellow and Tutor in English Literature at Oxford and the premier professor of Medieval and Renaissance literature at Cambridge, so his knowledge of greater literature itself was deep and profound. His students and colleagues were frequently amazed by his astonishing recall of minute detail in obscure works. He would play a game with you when you came to his office where he would have you pull down any book off his shelf and read a random passage out of it. He would tell you the work, author, and quote the surrounding context. Suffice it to say, the man knew his stuff.

CS-Lewis-on-the-Reading-of-Old-BooksBeing that Lewis had his ears to the ground with his students and was unusually fresh with his perspectives, his approaches to teaching literature would be a welcome and exciting change for many students weary of their dull college courses. Since many students just began their spring semesters, I think these thoughts of Lewis’s on understanding the classics would be pertinent at this time.

In his improperly titled A Preface to Paradise Lost, Lewis writes on multiple topics ranging from the genre of epic poetry to John Milton’s theology. In chapter IX, he tackles a method of reading classics that is still prevalent to this day (perhaps more so now I think) dubbed the method of “The Unchanging Human Heart.” Lewis describes it thus:

“According to this method the things which separate one age from another are superficial. Just as, if we stripped the armour off a medieval knight or the lace off a Caroline courtier, we should find beneath them an anatomy identical with our own, so, it is held, if we strip off from Virgil his Roman imperialism, from Sidney his code of honour, from Lucretius his Epicurean philosophy, and from all who have it their religion, we shall find the Unchanging Human Heart, and on this we are to concentrate.”

Lewis continues to say the he held to this method for many years, but that he has since abandoned it. I’m sure most people have naturally utilized this method in their readings, self-centered as we humans are. We look for ourselves in what we see. I’ve been guilty of it for years. We look for signs of familiarity in a foreign land. Shouldn’t we be appreciating what is new and foreign to us if we are to not be shallow tourists?

If we only look for this Unchanging Heart in everything we read, there is also the problem of imbalance in our understanding of the work. Lewis opines: “Our whole study of the poem will then become a battle between us and the author in which we are trying to twist his work into a shape he never gave it, to make him use the loud pedal where he really used the soft, to force into false prominence what he took in his stride, and to slur over what he actually threw into bold relief.”

Worse still, Lewis also points out that under the Unchanging Heart method that what we cslewismay wish to think is a facet of the unchanging nature of humanity, is actually just something we fancy because we like it now in the “modern mood”! This is egregious beyond making the author into ourself, because we are then morphing them into our culture as well.

Lewis wraps up the thought in a passage worth quoting at length:

“Fortunately there is a better way. Instead of stripping the knight of his armour you can try to put his armour on yourself; instead of seeing how the courtier would look without his lace, you can try to see how you would feel with his lace ; that is, with his honour, his wit, his royalism, and his gallantries out of the Grand Cyrus. I had much rather know what I should feel like if I adopted the beliefs of Lucretius than how Lucretius would have felt if he had never entertained them. The possible Lucretius in myself interests me more than the possible C. S. Lewis in Lucretius.
[..]      To enjoy our full humanity we ought, so far as is possible, to contain within us potentially at all times, and on occasion to actualize, all the modes of feeling and thinking through which man has passed. You must, so far as in you lies, become an Achaean chief while reading Homer, a medieval knight while reading Malory, and an eighteenth century Londoner while reading Johnson. Only thus will you be able to judge the work ‘in the same spirit that its author writ’ and to avoid chimerical criticism. It is better to study the changes in which the being of the Human Heart largely consists than to amuse ourselves with fictions about its immutability. For the truth is that when you have stripped off what the human heart actually was in this or that culture, you are left with a miserable abstraction totally unlike the life really lived by any human being.”

With this far more balanced and informative view, we can better understand the actual meaning being presented in the work regardless of our modern approval of it. Lewis quotes scholar Denis Saurat as saying that one should “study what there is of lasting originality in Milton’s thought and especially to disentangle from theological rubbish the permanent and human interest.” This is beyond misguided, it is an influence of the darkness of this present age that desires to purge man of God and refuse to bother with the real meaning of texts that do not adhere to contemporary skepticism. Lewis points out that this is like saying that one should study Hamlet without the rubbish of revenge or Gothic architecture without spires. Without its most essential elements, these things do not exist. This should be widely recognized as insane critical methodology, and yet it persists.

Lewis says that “our plan must be very different – to plunge right into the ‘rubbish’, to see the world as if we believed it, and then, while we still hold that position in our imagination, to see what sort of a poem results.”

So the next time you pick up a book that wasn’t written in the last two hundred years (which Lewis recommended doing between every new book you read) approach it not with the desire to dig for nuggets of modernity or yourself. Listen to the author, and treat all his or her thoughts with the respect of attempting to truly understand them. You may find some things admirable, grotesque, beautiful, mistaken, complex, honorable, hopeful, and more.. but do please find them!

“Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”
– Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass 

 

 

 

 

Life in the Face of Mystery: An Interview with Todd Olsen (The Waiting, Oats)

Todd Olsen is a founding member of legendary Christian alternative rock band The Waiting, and also performs solo as Oats.

In a basic sense, how would you describe your faith?


Todd Olsen: I would say the sort of basic “orthodox” things that most Christians adhere to; the basic tenets. I don’t really go for division and all that. I did walk into a Presbyterian church at one point and I was looking at what they believed about the end times, Revelation and all that, their view was basically “we don’t know exactly what it means” which really spoke to me because I like when people are honest like that. I don’t know what’s going on with all that stuff. I don’t wanna be like some people that act like they know when they don’t- I keep it simple. I think it’s far more important to live the faith than to have a particular denominational stance.

You once said that “I think people can be brought closer to God if you simply tell them what the Lord is doing in your life.” Would you say this still holds true?

Absolutely, and I would take it even further at this point and say that is really how to speak to others in my opinion. I believe in living the faith. I play in a lot of bars, but I’m not doing the same things many others do because that’s me. I’m not getting drunk, chasing women, etc, and I don’t go around preaching why but everybody knows it. I used to not do so well with that, to confess, I used to be a real flirt. I would chase girls and disappear on them! I’d be kissing on them and saying “bye!” right after! It wasn’t good. But the Lord really worked on me, changing my heart and making me realize that i was hurting myself and others. I didn’t flirt or touch another woman (that wasn’t a loved one) for 11 years after that. Didn’t even talk to them because if you talk to someone long enough
that’s flirting too! So what I’m saying is that the Lord has really changed my heart and my desires. I just abhor stuff I used to be caught up in. It’s not that I just don’t want to do it, but seeing other people do things I used to do, chase women and all that, it makes me sick. I really hate it. And it’s not just women or anything, there’s always stuff people get into. Now I’m not trying to do a holier-than-thou thing and look down on people, we’re all messed up in different ways. Joe Christian no matter how good he looks has got problems, but that doesn’t mean that God isn’t working on him to get him ready for the afterlife. I’m glad to be able to gig a lot doing these cover shows at bars and all, but it’s just a negative environment a lot of the time. It’s not easy to do, but it makes me happy to play and offer a little hope by good conduct…when people ask why I don’t do the things they do I tell them.

You’ve expressed dissatisfaction with the focus placed on conversion stories, but how did you come to Christ?

Yeah, I’ve never felt that was the super important thing it’s made out to be. Sure, some people have some crazy good stories. Like a guy gets out of prison and the moment he goes to the bus stop there’s a guy with a tract that shares Christ with him and his life is never the same from there. That’s all fine and good, but Christianity is a journey and not just a beginning. I grew up in the church and surrounded by all that, so I never really was without Christianity in my life. But when we were younger we were just kind of wild and doing crazy things around the church we shouldn’t have done. It was when I was 20 that I prayed. I don’t see it as being that exciting, I still had a long way to go and I still do to this day. My trouble with women was after that, it’s not like I became a saint with one prayer. I had to work through things and God had to put me through things for me to grow spiritually. That’s the thing I think needs to be focused on more.

What led you to pursue the arts?

I was five years old and my dad said I had to learn an instrument, so we walked into a shop and I picked out a trumpet. I started to learn how to play it and it wasn’t long before I wanted to quit. I told my dad I was intending to quit and he said “You can quit… as soon as you learn how to play it!” (laughs). So that’s what I did, I stuck with it till I was in my 20s because that’s when I really felt I had “learned” it. I was ready to move on to guitar though because it afforded more opportunity for musical things I wanted to do like writing, playing chords, singing along, and all that.

Who were some of your primary artistic influences growing up?

Well like many the first experience I had was with The Beatles. My dad had these sealed vinyl LP’s of their greatest hits that he wanted to keep pristine so he could transfer them to reel to reel. I busted them out and played them anyway (laughs) so that was really the first thing I latched onto, and you can of course hear that melodic influence in The Waiting. I’ve always been a melody guy. I learned a lot of classical music on trumpet, and classical is all about melody. Rock is about the rhythm, so I liked things that combined those two things, pretty much what you would call power pop now is what I enjoyed. When I got older I started listening to stuff that was unique, I always liked things that sounded different. That’s still really important to me. I don’t like hearing bands aping other bands. When The Beatles played a song that sounded like The Beach Boys [Back in the U.S.S. R.] it sounded cool because it still sounded like them and that was more of a tribute to how good the Beach Boys’s sound was. But there has always been way too many bands that just completely steal another band’s identity. I’m not naming names but I’ve seen way too many acts doing that. That’s something I’m proud of with The Waiting. We had our influences but nobody sounded like us. And we had our critics, I’m thinking of one in particular (laughs), who said we were too bright and poppy and not “cool” enough as an alternative band, but we didn’t care because it’s what we liked. I’ve always been a naturally optimistic person and I don’t want people to think there isn’t a struggle. But there is always hope with God and that may be reflected in my musical preference toward the melodic.

You once said The Waiting was influenced by Keith Green. Since you grew up in the church, were there any Christian artists like him in that stage that meant something to you?

Yeah, my mom was someone who didn’t appreciate me listening to Jimi Hendrix records on my turntable, she didn’t like the idea of a 14 year old tripping out to that stuff.. So I had to find Christian music that wouldn’t upset her that I could actually enjoy. This was at the time that Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith hit it really big, and I listened to them.

When The Waiting began, did you begin by deliberately writing about religious topics?

We did because it was what would make our parents happiest, honestly. That’s not the most artistic way to start by any means, but that’s what happened. We began doing it from that place and as we grew the meaning behind what we were doing grew and became more real to us.

Why did The Waiting wear 1940’s era clothes during the Blue Belly Sky era?

bluebellyskyOur manager wanted us to have a “look” and I’ll admit, I was the one responsible for that idea (laughs). Is it embarrassing now? Nah- I thought it was cool and I still do!

How did being a believer affect your career as an artist?

It affected it greatly! It was always the struggle of us trying to write stuff we thought people wanted to hear so we could get bigger, things that we might not have been so terribly interested in ourselves. “Hands in the Air,” pretty much everyone’s favorite song that we did, was one where we just let go and did what we wanted to do without worrying what people wanted to hear. We worried too much what people thought of what we wanted to do. I don’t want to rag on the Christian audience, because they’re the people who have supported us, but they make it hard on you sometimes when you maybe just want to write a song about your girlfriend or something. You put that on a record and it’s “Hey, I thought you guys were supposed to be Christians!” Yeah, well that’s a part of my Christian life! So we felt kind of constrained by that. Also, the industry was of course just a mess to work with. It’s different now. There’s really no such thing as a Christian music industry for stuff that isn’t worship music anymore. If you’re a Christian making music you’re either worship or secular. Which you know, I’m not really too sad about. The Christian music industry was a noble experiment, but it just got too big for its britches too quickly. There were way too many bands out there that just outright took the identities of other bands to the point that you could draw clear lines between every Christian band and a secular band, which is just terrible. It was like Christians were making their own bad copies of secular music so you could enjoy the sound without the sin. Now if you’re a Christian wanting to make music you play worship music and that’s that. I don’t hate worship music but it just isn’t my style and doesn’t do much for me. The problem for me is that with some notable exceptions I feel it’s too repetitive and sounds too much the same. So it’s not something I’m into musically, but I’m glad the Christian world has found some family friendly fare. There’s just still the problem of there being no place for artists who are Christians to flourish in making music that doesn’t fit into that category.

What were some of the struggles you faced that tested your ability to continue?

Oh man, well, I’ve already gone over some. But really the main thing that really crushed me? The death of a dream. I can’t tell you how much it broke me in 2002 when I had to decide to take The Waiting off the road. This may not sound good, but my dream was just to have a really successful rock band. To play big shows and have great sales on our singles and records. We really fought hard for that. We had the dream start that every band hopes for. We got discovered at a festival, we took the stage and did our set, started walking down the steps and there was a PACK of record executives wanting to sign us to their labels immediately. Things seemed like they were going to go really well. We toured relentlessly, we made good records. But it was never really enough. It supported a bunch of single guys for a long time, but then people started getting married and having families. Suddenly what we were doing just didn’t cut it anymore. We all had to go separate ways and take jobs that could actually provide for us. It was just a huge blow that took me a long time to recover from. You pour so much of your life into this band. For about a decade we worked our asses off trying to make it big.. to achieve that dream. Then you hit the moment where you realize it’s just not going to happen. That was really painful. I made the decision that it just wasn’t in our best interest to be on the road anymore even though it was going to be hardest on me. I was single and I loved playing shows, but I recognized that I couldn’t be the one driving everyone into the ground. I had to cut it off when the time was right. I went on to do freelance producing work from there, which didn’t make me all that happy, but I learned how to record. I went through a time of great grief which led to the Oats album a tear and a sneer, which is really about the five stages of grief that I went through when my father died, who was so important in my life and in supporting us. Eventually Tom Hill invited me to play with his covers band, which brought me back to playing gigs. That reignited my love for playing and sparked the idea of having Oats shows. I had to fight through a period where I was really uncomfortable with being a frontman though. That was always my brother Brad’s place. toddolsenBrad is a great frontman, and he feeds off the energy of being in the spotlight like that. I do not at all! I’m introverted, and I was always happy not being the center of attention playing guitar with The Waiting. I had to learn how to sing lead and be a frontman, which was not easy at all for me. I was terrified every time I did it for years. I had played for tens of thousands of people with The Waiting no problem, but I would freak out singing lead for twenty people! It took me years to not be afraid anymore, and it was just like one day *snap* it wasn’t there anymore. No more fear at all! God just completely took it away and I’ve never been the same since. Now I’m confident, which is so important for being a frontman. And now the Oats band is rehearsing, and that’s been years in the making. I’m ready to do it now!

But that was the hard thing for me. The death of the dream. Dreams can die hard, especially for me. I’m an extremely tenacious and persistent person, so that dying dream is all over the Oats record. The record is written about a relationship, but there’s a whole lot on the record behind that about other griefs.
It’s written that way because it was just kind of my introverted way of expressing other griefs that were too painful to address directly, one was my father’s passing and the other the death of that dream.
And now it’s kind of come full circle because getting the Oats thing going shows me how it’s not going to be the way it was and I don’t necessarily want it to be the way it was.
I don’t want to be full time on the road. I wouldn’t say no if there was a great need but in truth I’m kind of a home body. But going out to do Oats shows on weekend trips will be a lot of fun and it will be nice for fans of The Waiting because since there is only one Oats record we plan to round out the show with our versions of Waiting songs.

What are some Biblical verses, passages, or books that mean a great deal to you personally?

I always love Ecclesiastes, I just love that. I guess that’s the one most akin to the Oats experience (laughs). It’s just my personality. I like the Psalms too, things that are more uplifting or considered more uplifting. I like the overall, because The Bible really captures the overall experience of life. If you think you’re facing something that no one has ever faced, you haven’t read the whole thing because you’d see that’s just not true. The people in those stories faced a helluva lot more than any of us have. That is comforting to me, and those books are especially comforting to me. And I like Proverbs too because I aspire toward wisdom. It says a lot of good things that, taken at face value, will just make you happier. I’m just a rubber to the road, practical guy in that way. I don’t care about anyone’s theories and interpretations. It’s real simple for me to just take something like Proverbs at face value and not have to go through a ton of interpretation. Just “do this, and you will be wiser and happier.” It’s not necessarily that it will make you “happy,” but if you attain that wisdom and make decisions that are better for you – that goes toward making your life happier.

Something a lot of people are clamoring to hear more about is The Waiting’s new album Mysteriet that has been in the works for many years. You’ve said the album is about the “mystery and majesty of the Trinity.” What is your view of the Trinity?

I have no idea. That’s why it’s a mystery. I think that it’s probably put best the Irish way mysterietof talking about it, like a three leaf clover that has three leaves but is all one thing. That comes as close as anything because I don’t think it’s something that can be explained. I don’t expect to understand it while I’m here (laughs). In the next life I’m sure I will know fully, but I just take it on faith at this point.

You said that the topic is “literally the Mount Everest of Christian music”

Gosh, how presumptuous were we trying to do a record about the Trinity? (laughs) I liked the idea because it’s a concept album and we’re doing a few of the songs about the Father, a few about the Son, and a few about the Spirit, and a couple overall about all of them. But it’s all about God. So I like the idea, but dude, in practice it has been a nightmare. Because think about it, how do you put that into a record? How do you put God into music? What words do you write that are going to be fitting, suitable, that would be anywhere close to what has already been said? Or at least, able to be in the same room with the Scriptures, the same ballpark, planet? So that’s been a heck of a thing. But most of the songs have been written, so that was the hardest part. We’ve had some problems and troubles I won’t go into… just life stuff. The computer everything was on was disassembled for a long time and now it’s reassembled. It’s working and the files are still there. We’re in the process of getting those in a form where I can send those to Brad because the next step is for him to put his vocals down in a finished form. We already have vocals down but they need to be touched up and finished. From there it’ll be time for it to go to Ricky Rodriguez who’s the mix engineer, he’s also mixing the Oats record. He’s a guy in North Carolina, a buddy of mine. He has a place called Bomb House Studios with great music up there. So it’s one step at a time, but for a long time it was not in motion because we were kind of stuck on writing and even me. I was stuck on music, writing the right music. And Brad was stuck on writing the right words because it was such a hard thing to do. But I got a couple of things I like, and a couple of things I really like, so I’m very much looking forward to it. But it was inactive for a long time. Anyone can relate to that who has done any kind of writing.

In a 2001 interview you said that “The talk around the camp here is that our next record will be The Waiting’s Sgt. Pepper, which was a total left turn for The Beatles. Right now we’re reserving any nutty, crazy, out-there thing we want to do for the next record.”
Does this still apply to the musical direction of Mysteriet?

Ab-sol-ut-ely. There is nothing we have done that’s anything like this. Absolutely nothing. I’ll give you an example, we don’t go into any Rush territory per se but the first song on the album is in 5/4 time. We got a couple of mixed meter songs in there. We’re just kind of stretching. That’s what I was talking about when we were trying to write the music. We were trying to come up with something different we’ve never done. It’s a cool sound, kind of a hard sound more akin to what I did on the Oats record. That’s just where I’ve been lately, but it’s interesting technically from a musical point of view. It’s not just stuff with the same old 4/4 beat, we’re stretching. You could relate it, not in the ballpark genius-wise of Sgt. Pepper, but in that direction in the sense of it being just experimental. We’re just doing whatever we want to do. We have literally nothing to lose. Some people? They’re not going to like it, well fine. But some people are going to really love it, and think it’s our best work since “Hands in the Air.” And that has been our inspiration. Just that song. Not even a whole album! I took that song as the best thing we’ve ever done, which is what me and all the guys think, and I said “what did we do on this song?” What we did was just whatever we wanted. We didn’t think about the end, who was going to hear it, the radio. We just did what we were inspired to do by our creativity, our Creator, our God, and had no fear whatsoever. That’s the difference on this record. No $70,000 budget to worry about or paying a record company back to worry about. So it’s just what we think is good and that is what we did on Mysteriet.

Where did Mysteriet’s Norwegian name come from?

It’s a Norwegian word that means “The Mystery.” We chose the Norwegian word because that’s mine and Brad’s ancestry on my father’s side. My grandparents were from Norway.

You seem to be quite a reader, at one point saying you read two versions of Les Miserables!

Yes, I read two versions because I love that work. I just love Hugo’s style because it’s bombastic and he’s always asking a lot of questions. Victor Hugo is always like “How do you think he felt?? What could he do with all these feelings??” etc and I just love that. He’s just so over the top and it brought me into the story and made me feel what the character was feeling. But my favorite book by Hugo is Notre-Dame de Paris (The Hunchback of Notre-Dame).

Are there any books or authors that have particularly influenced you?

hobbit.jpgOh gosh, I could go on forever. One of my favorite ever books was The Hobbit and I was really glad they made the movies because the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings were really great. I don’t know if that’s considered in our community to be popcorn fare but I don’t care I just like it you know? I just like the stories. I like how Tolkien creates a whole world. He made up a freaking language! We tried to make up a language on the road with The Waiting. My brother was the spearhead of this, we made up this language because he used to say all of these nonsense words and we started writing them down and tried making a whole language out of it.
But the point being that Tolkien created a whole immersive world and I think that’s wonderful and very human. If there’s anything that can separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom maybe it’s that we can invent an entire universe. It makes us a little like God in that way. That nature. I really love The Hobbit. I love Watership Down too, I don’t know if you’re familiar with that one.

I’m very familiar with it!

I love it. I’ve never seen the movie, I’ve never been interested in seeing it really. I might be interested when somebody like Peter Jackson does it. At any rate I love that book and when I was on the road with The Waiting I would be reading up to seven books at a time! I would read philosophy, historical fiction, straight history, numerous topics. Soaking it all in. That’s something being on the road is great for. Plenty of time to read and soak up knowledge on the bus. But being home three days a month wasn’t great for me. You start thinking you’re going crazy! Anyway, those are a few I like. I love sci-fi too.

What is the most rewarding aspect of creating art that speaks to Christian truth?

The most rewarding aspect of creating art is the work. After the fact when people see the olsenguitarwork or hear it, pile money on you, pile adulation on you, give you attaboys. That’s all great, but for me the accomplishment is in the creation. When I get the idea. One example is when I was at Beaker’s house getting ready for a show, and we were making an arrangement we were working on of John Mellancamp’s “Jack and Diane.” We were trying to come up with an arrangement for two guitars  and what we were going to do, because obviously we don’t have the big drum bit happening for the solo. I was working on it and there was a moment where it finally clicked and I was like “That’s it!” We rehearsed it in front of Beaker’s wife and she said the same thing.
It’s an arrangement like we would do with The Waiting, something that will entertain that people will go crazy for. Keeping showmanship in mind. It’s a creative moment. That’s what I’m going for. I’m lying in bed watching Murdock Mysteries on BBC on my laptop, everytime there’s a break I mute it and think of how we’re going to do this arrangement. It’s the same kind of thing we’d do for a Waiting show. We learned from Tom Jackson, who was one of the best entertainment consultants in the business. We learned how to do The Waiting thing a lot from him, and now he consults people like Taylor Swift. So that was me taking what I learned from him and working it out from The Waiting. Using those creative moments.
The payout for me these days is getting the right idea. How do we get from here to there? On The Waiting album. How do I represent the awe of the Trinity in sound?
Part of my inspiration for Mysteriet was the beginning of Genesis where it says that the Spirit of the Lord was hovering on the water. In my mind that’s the mystery right there. Realizing that’s where I wanted the vibe of Mysteriet to come from, that was the payout.
As a creative person I know God felt this way when He created the earth, in whatever way He did it, He had to have gotten a charge out of it. I get a huge charge out of the smallest things.
When I’m creating it makes me happy. Even just to be primed to be creative. Seven failed attempts makes me happier than not trying.
As far as the Christian aspect? It depends on your calling, but the thing I like is for my life to be all one. The thing I like about having Christian content is for it to come out of my work that is not on a Christian label or record. But the fact is that there’s a way it is a Christian record because I am a Christian. I can’t escape my point of view! I can’t write like I’m a hedonist or something. The way I’m going to write it is going to be from my point of view. Everything on the Oats record is consistent with my Christianity and my life. I like that better than some of the divisions I’ve seen through growing up in church. Divisions in people’s lives are not good or helpful. In short, I feel like you shouldn’t be a Christian on Sunday and something else at other times. And church shouldn’t be a gathering of people painting smiles on their pained faces, it should be all the ups and downs. It says somewhere in the Bible that you have to laugh with those who laugh and cry with those who cry [Romans 12:15]. Have some compassion on the other guy, he’s a human being! Be real in church and I don’t mean rude, I just mean honest. Not just painting a smile on something when it hurts, but saying it damn hurts! We are all called to be honest. It’s every bit a part of being a Christian and your failures mean as much as your successes, and I don’t mean to dwell on the negative. But if you’re hurting there’s nothing wrong with talking about it! That’s what those other people are there for! It’s not like they have never grieved, we all have. I feel it’s important to not have a compartmentalized life, to have it all of life be one. That’s integrity. The same guy everywhere I go- all one. That’s what I aspire to.

I would encourage all the believers out there to do likewise. Be who you are all the time. Let the chips fall from there. If someone doesn’t want to be my friend because I’m honest about problems, well goodbye sir! God will be proud if I’m the real deal, I think. Your opinion does not matter as much to me as what God thinks. So I have to go by that. I’m not trying to say “yay sin!” or anything like that, but I just think people should be honest about struggles as well as successes. I encourage everyone to just be a faithful reporter. Whatever your calling may be, be faithful in that!

I’m just trying to practice what I preach.